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11/02/2015 11:57 am  #1

Church or Nature?

You like to pray in a church or shrine, or outdoors? What spiritual impact does these places have for you?


3/22/2016 3:05 pm  #2

Re: Church or Nature?

I regard myself as a spiritual person and believe in the afterlife and the power of Supreme Love. But I do not practise any religion. Religions have been the source of so many wars and arguments - and people always think that their religion is the "right" one.

All animals go to heaven- humans as well, LOL! http://cdn.boardhost.com/emoticons/happy.gif

3/23/2016 12:49 pm  #3

Re: Church or Nature?

That is because Religion is all about control. It has nothing to do with the universe and all its powers. It has to do with the things of humans. 

     Thread Starter

4/03/2016 6:41 pm  #4

Re: Church or Nature?

Religion is a control structure and in my opinion leads to a separation of spirituality for a concept of community.  This is especially bad in the prosperity gospel movement and all its branches, leak into many faith groups.  The concept were you donate money to a Church and you will be rewarded reeks of capitalism and its influence.  Its very much a common theme.  Or pay for service concepts.  
Religion also creates a concept that I like to think of as faith versus conviction.  One builds up a faith base on a ideology and when one breaks from that ideology the false conviction built from faith shatters.  This happens for a lot of people.  Conviction comes from doing and experiencing the results you have experienced and reinforcing them.  Faith comes from believing some one else is right and accepting there vision even if it flows against your own.  Religion also tends to give direct answers to things that are complex and require deep thought.  Concepts to be chiseled away at from discovery and generations of thought.  Religion short cuts that process.  By observing reality and striving to free yourself the illusions that society has instilled upon you, you gain a clear and present understanding of nature for what it is in all its complexity and layers.  


4/04/2016 12:22 pm  #5

Re: Church or Nature?

I tend to pray where ever I am when I need to it can be outside, in my room , at another home or out building even in the back of a Jeep or truck basically where ever I'm called to work. I have medicine bundles, my own personal medicine and a blanket so can work anywhere. Last week it was in a Neighbors cow barn in the middle of a herd of cattle with a sick calf. My horse protected me and kept the nosy cattle away whilst mum stood next to her calf and I did what was needed. I guess it worked as the neighbors are real happy and the calf is now out bouncing around the pasture with his mum n the other calves.

As to my thoughts on religion check out my signature . http://cdn.boardhost.com/emoticons/wink.png

Last edited by Maikan (4/04/2016 12:24 pm)

Religion is for people who are afraid of hell......
Spirituality is for those who have already been there......


4/04/2016 5:15 pm  #6

Re: Church or Nature?

its been a long while since I have nursed a cow back to health.  I have been living in Suburbia for too long and interaction with farm animals is limited.

I agree with your signature fully.  

I view a combination of practices as important.  There is a powerful dynamic of energy that is produced by groups. Intent and ritual help focus a person and there energies.  A connection to that group is an important part of the power in those group rituals.  Religion tends to formulate around that dynamic.  The issues is the control and politics that gather around any group of people.  

There is also importance to being connected to nature and all its mysteries.  In that regard I pray in my own way wherever I feel the need.  I prefer to be outdoors and among the elements for the most part during this process.  I have learned more from that then I have from groups.  I also do long meditation retreats when I can to recharge outdoors. Sometime in a vision quest like concept, others as a reconfirmation of my connection to the world outside the hustle of modern life.  

While I am not a Native practitioner from any nation/tribe I am an hybrid of Celtic Shamanism and Buddhist practices.  I carry the equivalent of a medicine bundle with more most of the time.  Terminology wise I could call it a Crane Skinned bag.  While its not made from Crane leather, that is the comparison point.  I also carry a personal medicine collection or as I have defined it a bundle of power objects.  Little things that have spiritual importance to me.  I belief that is a similar concepts to the personal medicine items, I am not completely familiar with the Native practice and the differences between groups to really make more then an educated guess to the comparison.    I also keep an emergency medical kit with me.  I have had to stitch myself up a few times when I was out and about as far removed from civilization as I can get.  


4/05/2016 12:23 pm  #7

Re: Church or Nature?

I cant live around a lot of people, noise or pollution basically civilization just isn't good for me, so I made sure my life keeps me away from that as much as possible. I am NDN but live a long way from home now as my path led me to live and work where I do. My home is a small farm high in the mountains surrounded by standing stones , stone circles, hidden woods n pools and amazing places of the ancestors.

Here I have to live with the elements every day as and  at the moment there are pretty much 4 seasons in one day weather wise, but the reality of it is its very alive. If I look out across this while valley I can only see a dozen other dwellings of which where I am is one of the highest.

Between the elements and the wild life it all seem's pretty remote, and from the top of the mountain I can look down over wilderness to the sea. The reality is I'm 15 minutes drive from a small coastal town so there is civilization nearby if I need or want it, thankfully though most class this place as a bit to remote as the country up here is wild so they stay around the town unless they need to head out this way.

As this is a strict Catholic country I don't exactly talk about what I do, I just work at it quietly in the back ground. Saying that those who need my help and skills always find me be they animal or human.

Religion is for people who are afraid of hell......
Spirituality is for those who have already been there......


4/05/2016 2:57 pm  #8

Re: Church or Nature?

I understand that concept.  I have to get away, but in between returning to college and the work I do for a living I am kinda stuck in the environment I am in.  I cannot tolerate living in the city directly, it drains me.  As such I compromised and at least have parks to go too and semi-wilderness nearby.  There is a wildlife reserve that is nearby were I live and it helps.  When I have the time or need I go out to more remote locations and recharge.  I am not sure if I would be completely comfortable living remotely as I like to feel the energy of other people around me.  Sadly that comes with noise and pollution.  My Aunt cannot handle that and remains on her farm with her animals and it makes her happy.  I can always head that way when I feel the need to be in a more quite setting. Its about a 2 hour drive from were I am so its not impossible.  

I am in the Bible Belt while there is a growing acceptance of Pagan practices in general its still keep quiet about things in general, more open with the Buddhist philosophy then the pagan concepts.  I have had incidents of being assaulted by over zealous young Christians that took fire and brimstone pastors and Leviticus a little to seriously.  I was rarely directly attacked, but those around me were, that coming from the fact that at the time I was 275 of muscle and martial arts training.  It is an issue and part of the sickness that still plagues this country. 

Living in Missouri I am used to a wildly fluctuating environment all the time.  Its been snowing and 80 degrees in the same week lately.  Once things stabilize out and the rainy season completes itself the weather is nice till summer when it turns into a humid death zone.  90% Humidity and 110 degree weather is rough on anyone.  Luckily I am a high enough elevation that I do not have to worry about tornadoes as much.  I am generally comfortable with the elements and being outside, though in general clothing is terrible for getting wet in.  People in general think I am crazy for sitting out in the rain watching a thunderstorm roll by.  I tend to dress more vaguely European medieval style when out in the wilds as the clothing is designed to be worn in the elements.  A nice wool cloak goes a long ways.  Sure I may look I just got lost from a Renaissance Festival but it works.  I can survive in the wilds just fine.  There is enough to survive if you know what to look for.  I keep the skills refined and practiced, but what can I say there is a reason civilization got popular.  I would starve to death outside of area though, I do not know the native plants that are edible outside of my region, I suppose hunting would be an option.  On that note I do try to minimize my environmental impact as much as possible.  Recycle everything we can and grow food in our garden from compost gathered from food waste and fertilizer from the rabbits we keep as pets.  They get spoiled and well fed, we get a natural plant food.  

I have a different sort of warding rituals that I have placed around my home, protecting them from negative energies and spirits.  I also provide this service for those that seek me out.  Charging money is incorrect, though I will not refuse a gift.  Which ties into the Fairy magic traditions that are part of the surviving Celtic and Druidic practices.  I joke about doing everything for a six pack of beer and a good story.  Never really expect anything for it and accept gifts graciously.  I work a job to survive, I practice my spirituality to live has been the concept I choose to live by.  I am actually torn on selling the book I am working on explaining practices and customs that I have adapted.  Once completed I will have to make that choice.  


4/05/2016 3:53 pm  #9

Re: Church or Nature?

Agreed re the charging part, I had it drummed into me hard that you never charge for this work, its not yours to charge for anyway. The person you do the work for provides the tobacco, sage, ceder,  sweet grass and any other herbs, and if they choose to give you a gift for your part in it all, then you except it with good grace what ever it is. I've been given some interesting things over the years http://cdn.boardhost.com/emoticons/smile.png
but all of them have either been passed on to help others or used by me.

My path in this life has taken me far from home and I've lived in 7 different countries, I don't intend to move again its getting to expensive and I was sent here for a reason so that has kinda tied me to this country at least. Its kinda Ironic as I read your post I'm living in a Celtic country and a lot I know here who I class as friends are either Pagan or Druid in there beliefs and follow those practices.

This place that I live has standing stones, a stone circle a rath a sacred spring and an ancient burial ground on it, its history is amazing even a castle once stood on the land here, though its long since gone and its stone went to build this farm.

It also has 2 major earth energy lines cross on it so energetically wise it can get somewhat interesting at times in a good way. Every one here especially the older generations are very respectful of the Fae, you don't mess about when it comes to them , hell they have  changed the position of houses in the Planning department and roads etc so that the Fae are respected. You don't mess about with them or what is there's, if your an outsider and plan to build something the locals will have there say if it looks like your going to disrupt the Fae. I kid you not, even main road plans get changed to accommodate them.

At the moment I'm in the long process of putting back in place the original stones of a small circle that was taken down by a German who lived here for a while and decided to disrespect things and remove them because it was in the way , he learn t the hard way of his mistake there.

I know the Great Grandson of the original people who built this farm 200 yrs ago, he's in his 90's but with his help and some old family photo's of his we've managed to locate the stones and know how and where to re set them.

A Druid friend is helping with this work so far we've moved 3 stones and set one back in place. Its not easy doing this when your up to your eyeballs in mud due to the crazy weather we've had this winter.  Now the land has to dry out before anything else can be done, simply because its mountain land and the fauna and flora is fragile at best despite a good covering of it its working around it whilst causing the least amount of damage.

I grow, raise, forage or hunt most of our food. Ive always done so what ever country I've lived in. You'd be surprised how a lot of varieties of plants grow world wide they may be know locally by different names or be slightly different variants of the same plant species but you can survive with a basic working knowledge, an open mind and if your really out of your comfort zone a good plant book.

This place came with its own wards, most just needed refreshing and I've added my own equivalent where needed. Its a safe place even if the ancestors etc walk here. I've no issue with them and they have none with me as far as I can tell. Ive always been and will continue to be respectful of them. But I do work with my own Ancestors as I am what I am and it runs to deep within me to change it. I can and do manage to live and work with my own medicine and its equivalent that comes with this place and keep them both in some kind of balance.

Religion is for people who are afraid of hell......
Spirituality is for those who have already been there......


4/05/2016 7:51 pm  #10

Re: Church or Nature?

That goes into the concept that I follow are all on the same journey even if we walk a different road.  I usually supply my own herbs, I am particular on quality and grow most of them on my own and gather the ones I can find. Since I am in a high population density area, the gathering of herbs in the wild is problematic.  So I grow and dry them on my own and know a few places were I can find certain things locally.  I have to travel an hour to get into an area that is not farm country.  Even then its better for me to travel about three if I want to get into more isolated areas.  I feel bad for people in higher population density areas.  

My life path has kept me grounded here.  When I tried to leave in my younger years I was constantly drawn back, not so much for the sake of family as a connection to the area.  In a way I am bound to it.  

I am still a little paranoid about leaving obvious signs of warding work, the Wicca Scare of the 80's and 90's opened back up in this area when I was still learning and it got rather nasty as such I tended to leave subtle components that would not be recognized as such.  I buried a circle around my parents home for instance.  It sucks being forced into hiding for you practice.  I feel that for everyone that has had to do such things.  I can get away with it now, but that lingering fear still remains.  So again I adapted and was happy with the practice.

I sadly do not have many earth lines in my area, its rather void of stronger ones and the nearest crossing point is about 70 mile from my home.  Which is annoying but livable.  I have never investigated why this is the case, I think I am just in a odd zone for such things.  

In my area there is an interest in the fey but it mostly stems from people that are a little obsessed with Disney characters.  There was a strong otherkin movement but it was all New Ager related and as such rather annoying. Though there are some long standing groups that have formed up, they are a bit to far on the New Ager side of things for my personal taste, though I have worked with many of the people that are leaders in that community in the past.  

I set a lot of long standing wards and tie then in with the local environment myself.  I am the first to admit that my process is rapid, some what crazy and carries risk.  Its not for everyone and I have learned to summon a lot of spiritual energy over the years that make my process possible.  Slow and steady has its benefits, I am just impatient in that regards, that and often people are like ward my home, but do it today.  My methods have been called wild and reckless, yet strangely impressive by more then one person.  I also tend to walk a fine line of going just a bit to far and just right.  I think that stems from being alone in my practice for so long.  It really helps out to have groups to work with in that regard, but often if I wanted a group I had to train them to a certain point before they could keep up or handle what I do.  The lack of groups to perform larger task has been beneficial to my personal development but also limits me to what I can do over a period of time.  Sometimes it takes a while to recharge ones energy levels after doing to big of a job by yourself. 

Respecting the environment is important and the rainy season does make such work difficult.  Once things dry out it will be much easier to move things around and complete the process.  

The druidic revival tradition in Great Britain has benefited from 200+ years of redevelopment and those groups have a lot to teach overall.  I should probably purchase some of the source material to fill in gaps of my understanding of the practice overall.  Something I have not done to date.  The pagan community in that area is gratefully further along then the growing pains in this area.  But with in a few generations things will have stabilized out.  Since the shift only happened in the 60's its still very young in regards to building traditions and stabilizing out.  I should probably step back into the community as a leader, but I am reluctant to do so till after I complete my current degree program and can guarantee the time.  Its easier for me right now to work in the Buddhist community, even if they do not really understand what they are doing in regards to spiritual work overall they are quite good at harnessing there personal energies, not so good an really knowing what to do with it.   

Well I am writing a book and its getting late.  This conversation has been enjoyable, I look forward to its continuation.  


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