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11/10/2016 3:17 pm  #21


Re: Donald Trump Wins The American Election

Thunderbow wrote:

The above, does not show conclusive criminal intent.It is good that intent has to be proven for a charge to be made. No intent was proven, thus no charges. The rest is just implication and speculation. Once again, the mail was classified by different agency's after they were transmitted. There is no documented prof that she knowingly sent marked classified mail. Our system and the FBI is good enough and smart enough not to charge and convict someone on speculations and implications alone. The plaintif has the burden of prof. I know intent is hard to prove. Until it is proven, all you got is speculation and implications. I can not judge and convict someone on that alone.

 
Your entitled to believe what you want. For me im thankful i was in the military while she was secretary of state.

I wouldn't consider it over yet. Obama may pardon her and then that will be it. It may simply be left alone as long as she stays miles away from politics. But its also possible she will wind up locked up down the road. I hope she does for the sake of the people she has put at risk. But life will go on in any case.

Last edited by running (11/10/2016 3:19 pm)

 

11/10/2016 4:16 pm  #22


Re: Donald Trump Wins The American Election

Moving on.

the three most frequently cited laws that appear to have been violated by Clinton:

1. Mishandling Classified Information

Executive Order 13526 and 18 U.S.C Sec. 793(f) of the federal code make it unlawful to send of store classified information on personal email. Casey Harper at The Daily Caller delved into this angle:


"'By using a private email system, Secretary Clinton violated the Federal Records Act and the State Department’s Foreign Affairs Manual regarding records management, and worse, could have left classified and top secret documents vulnerable to cyber attack,' Cause of Action Executive Director Dan Epstein said in an email to reporters.

'This is an egregious violation of the law, and if it were anyone else, they could be facing fines and criminal prosecution.'”

Harper goes on to point out that multiple violations of this law have been enforced recently, including in 1999, when former CIA Director John M. Deutch's security clearance was suspended for using his personal email to send classified information.

Additionally, this past week, Gen. David Patraeus pleaded guilty for mishandling classified information by using a Gmail account instead of his official government email.

2. Violation of The 2009 Federal Records Act

Section 1236.22 of the 2009 National Archives and Records Administration (NARA) requirements states that:

“Agencies that allow employees to send and receive official electronic mail messages using a system not operated by the agency must ensure that Federal records sent or received on such systems are preserved in the appropriate agency record keeping system.”

According to the original story on Clinton's emails published in The New York Times:

"Federal regulations, since 2009, have required that all emails be preserved as part of an agency’s record-keeping system. In Mrs. Clinton’s case, her emails were kept on her personal account and her staff took no steps to have them preserved as part of State Department record.

In response to a State Department request, Mrs. Clinton’s advisers, late last year, reviewed her account and decided which emails to turn over to the State Department."

The fact that the State Department combs through the 55,000 pages of emails sent on Clinton's private email account seems to verify that at least some of the emails Clinton sent contained classified information.

3. Violation of the Freedom Of Information Act (FOIA)

Veterans for a Strong America has filed a lawsuit against the State Department over potential violations of FOIA. Joel Arends, chairman of the non-profit group, explained to the Washington Examiner that their FOIA request over the Benghazi affair specifically asked for any personal email accounts Secretary Clinton may have used:

“'At this point in time, I think we're the only ones that specifically asked for both her personal and government email and phone logs,' Arends said of his group's Benghazi-related request.”

MSNBC's Lawrence O'Donnell believes that the use of a personal emails server appears to be a preemptive move, specifically designed to circumvent FOIA:

“'Hillary Clinton’s system was designed to defy Freedom of Information Act requests, which is designed to defy the law.'”

[mga_video id=8oBEhNirSSg]

These are just three of the potential violations that Clinton may have committed by using a personal email account to conduct official State business.

Last edited by running (11/10/2016 4:19 pm)

 

11/10/2016 4:26 pm  #23


Re: Donald Trump Wins The American Election

I bet trump will want to leave it alone. And i kinda think it will be. But heres somebody whom does not want to let it go. We will see what happens.

House Oversight and Government Reform Committee Chairman Jason Chaffetz (R-Utah says he plans to continue investigating Hillary Clinton’s use of a private email server. EPA/MICHAEL REYNOLDS)
While President-elect Donald Trump pledged in his victory speech to “come together as one united people,” a top House Republican said Wednesday he will continue to investigate Hillary Clinton’s use of a private email server as secretary of state.

Jason Chaffetz, the Utah congressman finishing his first term leading the powerful House Oversight and Government Reform Committee, made it clear the partisan bitterness that marked the presidential campaign is not going to go away.

“It would be totally remiss of us to dismiss [the email investigation] because she’s not going to be president,” Chaffetz said of the defeated Democratic nominee.

“I still have a duty and obligation to get to the truth about one of the largest breaches of security at the State Department,” he said. “Tens of thousands of documents still have not been turned over to Congress.”


Last week, senior Republican lawmakers were openly discussing the prospect of impeaching Clinton for setting up a private email server for official State Department business, even though the FBI concluded after two investigations that she should not be criminally prosecuted.

Impeachment, of course, was a GOP dream if Clinton won.

[Donald Trump could actually take steps to try and jail Hillary Clinton]

But Chaffetz said he has a “duty” to find thousands of Clinton’s communications that have not been made public to determine if they contain classified information. He also said some State Department employees who helped set up the email server in her New York home could lose their security clearances.

Chaffetz said his committee will probably call State Department employees to do transcribed interviews with lawmakers, and may hold hearings.

[House Republicans are already preparing for ‘years’ of Clinton investigations.]

“Do I anticipate calling Hillary Clinton to testify?” he said. “No.” But other State Department staff could be dragged, again, into an investigation that to many seemed closed.

Democrats said it’s time to put the email controversy to rest: Clinton lost.

“It is extremely disappointing that Chairman Chaffetz plans to continue investigating  Secretary Clinton for years to come,” Elijah Cummings (D-Md.), the Oversight Committee’s top Democrat, said in a statement.

“After everything our country has just been through—and particularly given that Donald Trump and Paul Ryan have both called for healing our nation’s divisions—I think the American people deserve more from Congress than to continue squandering taxpayer dollars on these baseless Republican accusations and partisan attacks.”


During its investigation, the FBI recovered thousands of emails the agency believed Clinton had not turned over to the State Department but which were work-related. Judicial Watch, a conservative legal group, has filed dozens of civil open-records lawsuits against the agency for Clinton-related documents. Justice Department lawyers have said these emails will eventually be made public — but it will take years for most of them to be cleared under public-records laws and released.

[Clinton-related work emails on Anthony Weiner computer may become public by 2022]

Chaffetz said that’s too long, and predicted that “a Trump administration would be cooperative in getting these floodgates to open as they should.”

Trump said last month he would appoint a special prosecutor to examine Clinton’s use of a private email server. Such a prosecution would have to be pursued by his attorney general, who would have to agree with his assessment that the email practices violated criminal laws governing mishandling of classified information.

 

11/11/2016 8:34 am  #24


Re: Donald Trump Wins The American Election

Much of what you posted is just implications and speculation with no solid evidence to back it all up with. I need solid prof, not implications and speculation. We all have the right to be innocent until proven guilty in a court of law. Most of what you posted is carefully crafted Republican spin. I do not call that evidence. If Hillary is convicted on implication and speculation alone then, America is no longer a free country. I honor Hillary and thank her for her efforts.

Thank you for the debate, where it never became personal. I value your membership in this forum. We set a fine example on how to debate.

     Thread Starter
 

11/11/2016 10:26 am  #25


Re: Donald Trump Wins The American Election

Thunderbow wrote:

Much of what you posted is just implications and speculation with no solid evidence to back it all up with. I need solid prof, not implications and speculation. We all have the right to be innocent until proven guilty in a court of law. Most of what you posted is carefully crafted Republican spin. I do not call that evidence. If Hillary is convicted on implication and speculation alone then, America is no longer a free country. I honor Hillary and thank her for her efforts.

Thank you for the debate, where it never became personal. I value your membership in this forum. We set a fine example on how to debate.

 
The last article was from a newspaper i think the huffington post. I was just showing somebody whom doesnt want to let it go. I am confident in trump wanting to leave it alone. We will see. The one previous to that you could call an opinion piece. Before that is just a transcript. No opinions or spins. Gowdy showing how an attorney proves intent to Comey. While under oath.

Intent is not needed to prosecute. There are plenty of crimes already. Although intent can be easily proven through the character of continual lies to hide what is actually going on. Had it gone to a court she would be in jail. But its not like i expect other people to see that. I agree 100% everybody is entitled to their opinion and without a court ruling it is only speculation. Nor does it matter sense its not going to go to court anyways.

For me i put my personal experience and the knowledge of people i trust first. Like i said earlier my uncle was an inteligence officer in iraq and the pentagon. His job was knowing all the ins and outs of classified information. I have known and trusted him my whole life. When he says with 100% confidence that anybody else would be in jail, stripped immediately of all clearances, and no longer allowed a role in gov. i believe him before other people. There is also A LOT he knows but cant say because of his occupation in intelligence.

Your welcome it was fun. I dont have anything more to say or add. Nor did it get ugly so i agree and that i think it is good example to.

Last edited by running (11/11/2016 10:36 am)

 

11/11/2016 12:16 pm  #26


Re: Donald Trump Wins The American Election

I do not like accusations as evidence.Seeing so many nasty accusations about Hillary breaks my heart. The over exaggerated ones about her being a liar, corrupt, and so on is just to mean spirited. No one should be hammered the way she was, not even Trump. Your Uncle has not seen evidence to his claims, no more than we have. Thus he has to speculate just like everyone else.

     Thread Starter
 

11/11/2016 1:37 pm  #27


Re: Donald Trump Wins The American Election

Thunderbow wrote:

I do not like accusations as evidence.Seeing so many nasty accusations about Hillary breaks my heart. The over exaggerated ones about her being a liar, corrupt, and so on is just to mean spirited. No one should be hammered the way she was, not even Trump. Your Uncle has not seen evidence to his claims, no more than we have. Thus he has to speculate just like everyone else.

 
There is a plethora of evidence. Completely proven. Nobody imo should be allowed to make their own rules on how to handle classified information. There is no speculation of how she dealt with classified information. That part is factual. Most importantly it is without question specificity she declined the gov computer designed for that purpose. Not speculation. It simply was never used. This is factual information from her in the investigation.

The only thing that has not been proven is why she did what she did. She claimed convenience. Im not buying that nor is many others. The debate about it is why she did what she did. There is no debate about weather she did or didnt.

Last edited by running (11/11/2016 1:47 pm)

 

11/11/2016 3:04 pm  #28


Re: Donald Trump Wins The American Election

This E Mail issue is so over blown by the Republicans that the truth is lost forever. So she used a private server? The Republican generated implications are not fact. It was never proven she knowingly sent classified information. Until that is proven in a court of law, it will all just be accusation and implications. She did use the gov. computer. She did follow the rules. If she did not she would have been charged and convicted. She had a private server of make doing E Mail easier. But I do not think she was trying any thing else. Until it is proven, it is all speculation and accusation. Speculations and implications are political, and are not FACT. I can not judge Hillary on Implications.

Last edited by Thunderbow (11/11/2016 3:05 pm)

     Thread Starter
 

11/11/2016 3:42 pm  #29


Re: Donald Trump Wins The American Election

running wrote:

Screenshot
BY: AMANDA PRESTIGIACOMO JULY 7, 2016
89 16 2 Comments 327
On Thursday, FBI Director James Comey maintained that no “reasonable prosecutor” would charge former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton under the "gross negligence" statute over her mishandling of classified materials, since, apparently, Hillary's “extreme carelessness” was not coupled with intent.

Representative Trey Gowdy put aside that intentionality was indeed injected into the statute by the FBI (only "gross negligence" is required), and focused on Hillary’s supposed lack of intent during his five-minute questioning of the FBI director during the hearing

GOWDY: Secretary Clinton said she never sent or received any classified information over her classified email, was that true?

COMEY: Our investigation found that there was classified information sent.

GOWDY: ...Secretary Clinton said there was nothing marked classified on her emails either sent or received, was that true?

COMEY: That's not true...

GOWDY: Secretary Clinton said "I did not email any classified material to anyone on my email, there is no classified material," was that true?

COMEY: There was classified material emailed.

GOWDY: Secretary Clinton said she used just one device, was that true?

COMEY: She used multiple devices during the four years of her term as secretary of state.

GOWDY: Secretary Clinton said all work-related emails were returned to the State Department, was that true?

COMEY: No, we found work-related emails--thousands--that were not returned.

GOWDY: Secretary Clinton said neither she nor anyone else deleted work-related emails from her personal account, was that true?

COMEY: ...There's no doubt there were work-related emails that were removed electronically from the email system.

GOWDY: Secretary Clinton said her lawyers read every one of the emails and were overly inclusive, did her lawyers read the email content individually?

COMEY: No.


GOWDY: …I’m going to ask you to put on your old hat. False exculpatory statements — they are used for what?

COMEY: Well, either for a substantive prosecution, or for evidence of intent in a criminal prosecution.

GOWDY: Exactly. Intent, and consciousness of guilt, right? Is that right?

COMEY: Right.
),

 
Comey under oath just the facts

In addition destroying evidence after a subpoena is a crime in this country since its beginnings.

Its called obstruction of justice.

Last edited by running (11/11/2016 4:38 pm)

 

11/11/2016 3:54 pm  #30


Re: Donald Trump Wins The American Election

Perhaps going along the thinking of clinton i could disreguard traffic laws since it would be more convenient to do my job. People could easily understand the dangers in not following traffic laws. People since they are not in the position to understand the risks of not following the traffic laws in dealing with confidential information is why some people dont see it as  serious. To me our military personnel should be given the same respect as civilians when it comes to their safety.

Last edited by running (11/11/2016 4:08 pm)

 

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