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11/10/2016 11:25 am  #11


Re: Donald Trump Wins The American Election

Thunderbow wrote:

Can you post some facts here to back this all up with. No hate websites please!

...."But anything that was raw material and possibly to become classified is to be treated classified."

How would anyone know if it will be classified? This is a weak argument if you are trying to prove that Hillary willingly sent Classified documents. The FBI cleared her twice. Your post implies woman hating by those who said those accusations about her. I need facts to back up those kind of accusations.

 

James comey said under oath. Yes there was classified information at the time. Give me a minute.

Last edited by running (11/10/2016 11:26 am)

 

11/10/2016 11:33 am  #12


Re: Donald Trump Wins The American Election

Anbody else would of been in prison. Ask almost anybody in the military. Everybody i have asked has said the same thing. James comey let her off. The whole thing was a scam from day one.

 

11/10/2016 11:36 am  #13


Re: Donald Trump Wins The American Election

Transcript of trey gowdy interviewing comey will tell you most everything. You could watch it or just read it.

 

11/10/2016 11:41 am  #14


Re: Donald Trump Wins The American Election

Not including the 34,000 deleted emails according to james comey there were 110 emails that were classified at the time.

Informatiok that may become classified would be about sensitive topis and information. Its not rocket science to have an idea.

 

11/10/2016 12:03 pm  #15


Re: Donald Trump Wins The American Election

Jumping to conclusions is not what I am into. Can you post links, or give Specific Examples of these accusations. Take your time if you need to. I am not buying into all those implications and accusations. I need the facts. My impression was that the so called classified documents were classified after they were sent. Saying it is a scam does not prove any thing, I need the hard core proff. Once again, I see angry accusations that are very blind. I see much exaggeration and escalation in those comments made by those accusing her.

Those "110" E mails were not clearly marked Classified, according to how such matterial should be marked. You know that from your military service. And those 33,000 deleted E mails prove nothing. I see much implication about them, but no facts to back up them.

Those over the top accusations on Clinton show more about psychological issues that those accusers have, rather than proven fact. Thus I will not jump to conclusions based on those accusations alone.

Last edited by Thunderbow (11/10/2016 12:04 pm)

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11/10/2016 12:34 pm  #16


Re: Donald Trump Wins The American Election

Thunderbow wrote:

Jumping to conclusions is not what I am into. Can you post links, or give Specific Examples of these accusations. Take your time if you need to. I am not buying into all those implications and accusations. I need the facts. My impression was that the so called classified documents were classified after they were sent. Saying it is a scam does not prove any thing, I need the hard core proff. Once again, I see angry accusations that are very blind. I see much exaggeration and escalation in those comments made by those accusing her.

Those "110" E mails were not clearly marked Classified, according to how such matterial should be marked. You know that from your military service. And those 33,000 deleted E mails prove nothing. I see much implication about them, but no facts to back up them.

Those over the top accusations on Clinton show more about psychological issues that those accusers have, rather than proven fact. Thus I will not jump to conclusions based on those accusations alone.

 

fbi.gov

Ok then only facts. Press releas july 5 2016.

Last edited by running (11/10/2016 12:38 pm)

 

11/10/2016 12:51 pm  #17


Re: Donald Trump Wins The American Election

Thunderbow wrote:

Jumping to conclusions is not what I am into. Can you post links, or give Specific Examples of these accusations. Take your time if you need to. I am not buying into all those implications and accusations. I need the facts. My impression was that the so called classified documents were classified after they were sent. Saying it is a scam does not prove any thing, I need the hard core proff. Once again, I see angry accusations that are very blind. I see much exaggeration and escalation in those comments made by those accusing her.

Those "110" E mails were not clearly marked Classified, according to how such matterial should be marked. You know that from your military service. And those 33,000 deleted E mails prove nothing. I see much implication about them, but no facts to back up them.

Those over the top accusations on Clinton show more about psychological issues that those accusers have, rather than proven fact. Thus I will not jump to conclusions based on those accusations alone.

 
Im sorry but that is not what i learmed from my military experienience. You treat things that can or may be classified as if it is classified.

Last edited by running (11/10/2016 1:16 pm)

 

11/10/2016 1:01 pm  #18


Re: Donald Trump Wins The American Election

Screenshot
BY: AMANDA PRESTIGIACOMO JULY 7, 2016
89 16 2 Comments 327
On Thursday, FBI Director James Comey maintained that no “reasonable prosecutor” would charge former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton under the "gross negligence" statute over her mishandling of classified materials, since, apparently, Hillary's “extreme carelessness” was not coupled with intent.

Representative Trey Gowdy put aside that intentionality was indeed injected into the statute by the FBI (only "gross negligence" is required), and focused on Hillary’s supposed lack of intent during his five-minute questioning of the FBI director during the hearing

GOWDY: Secretary Clinton said she never sent or received any classified information over her classified email, was that true?

COMEY: Our investigation found that there was classified information sent.

GOWDY: ...Secretary Clinton said there was nothing marked classified on her emails either sent or received, was that true?

COMEY: That's not true...

GOWDY: Secretary Clinton said "I did not email any classified material to anyone on my email, there is no classified material," was that true?

COMEY: There was classified material emailed.

GOWDY: Secretary Clinton said she used just one device, was that true?

COMEY: She used multiple devices during the four years of her term as secretary of state.

GOWDY: Secretary Clinton said all work-related emails were returned to the State Department, was that true?

COMEY: No, we found work-related emails--thousands--that were not returned.

GOWDY: Secretary Clinton said neither she nor anyone else deleted work-related emails from her personal account, was that true?

COMEY: ...There's no doubt there were work-related emails that were removed electronically from the email system.

GOWDY: Secretary Clinton said her lawyers read every one of the emails and were overly inclusive, did her lawyers read the email content individually?

COMEY: No.


GOWDY: …I’m going to ask you to put on your old hat. False exculpatory statements — they are used for what?

COMEY: Well, either for a substantive prosecution, or for evidence of intent in a criminal prosecution.

GOWDY: Exactly. Intent, and consciousness of guilt, right? Is that right?

COMEY: Right.

GOWDY: Consciousness of guilt, and intent. In your old job, you would prove intent, as you just referenced, by showing the jury evidence of a complex scheme that was designed for the very purpose of concealing the public record. And you would be arguing, in addition to concealment, the destruction that you and I just talked about, or certainly the failure to preserve. You would argue all of that under the heading of intent.

You would also be arguing the pervasiveness of the scheme: when it started, when it ended, and the number of emails, whether they were originally classified or up-classified. You would argue all of that under the heading of intent.

You would also probably, under “common scheme or plan,” argue the “burn bags” of daily calendar entires, or the missing daily calendar entires as a common scheme or plan to conceal.

Two days ago, Director, you said a reasonable person in her position should have known a private email is no place to sand and receive classified information. And you’re right: an average person does know not to do that. This is no average person: this is a former First Lady, a former United States Senator, and a former Secretary of State that the president now contends is the most competent, qualified person to be president since [Thomas] Jefferson. He didn’t say that in ’08, but he says it now.

She affirmatively rejected efforts to give her a state.gov account, she kept these private e-mails for almost two years, and only turned them over to Congress because we found out she had a private e-mail account.

So you have a rogue e-mail system set up before she took the oath of office; thousands of what we now know to be classified e-mails, some of which were classified at the time; one of her more frequent e-mailed comrades was, in fact, hacked, and you don’t know whether or not she was; and this scheme took place over long period of time and resulted in the destruction of public records — and yet you say there is insufficient evidence of intent?

You say she was “extremely careless,” but not intentionally so. Now, you and I both know intent is really difficult to prove. Very rarely do defendants announce, “On this day, I intend to break this criminal code section. Just to put everyone on notice, I am going to break the law on this day.” It never happens that way. You have to do it with circumstantial evidence — or, if you’re Congress, and you realize how difficult it is to prove specific intent, you will formulate a statute that allows for “gross negligence.”

See the portion of the statue the FBI is referencing with regard to Hillary,18 U.S.C. section 793(f),

Last edited by running (11/10/2016 1:10 pm)

 

11/10/2016 1:07 pm  #19


Re: Donald Trump Wins The American Election

(a) Whoever, for the purpose of obtaining information respecting the national defense with intent or reason to believe that the information is to be used to the injury of the United States, or to the advantage of any foreign nation, goes upon, enters, flies over, or otherwise obtains information concerning any vessel, aircraft, work of defense, navy yard, naval station, submarine base, fueling station, fort, battery, torpedo station, dockyard, canal, railroad, arsenal, camp, factory, mine, telegraph, telephone, wireless, or signal station, building, office, research laboratory or station or other place connected with the national defense owned or constructed, or in progress of construction by the United States or under the control of the United States, or of any of its officers, departments, or agencies, or within the exclusive jurisdiction of the United States, or any place in which any vessel, aircraft, arms, munitions, or other materials or instruments for use in time of war are being made, prepared, repaired, stored, or are the subject of research or development, under any contract or agreement with the United States, or any department or agency thereof, or with any person on behalf of the United States, or otherwise on behalf of the United States, or any prohibited place so designated by the President by proclamation in time of war or in case of national emergency in which anything for the use of the Army, Navy, or Air Force is being prepared or constructed or stored, information as to which prohibited place the President has determined would be prejudicial to the national defense; or
(b) Whoever, for the purpose aforesaid, and with like intent or reason to believe, copies, takes, makes, or obtains, or attempts to copy, take, make, or obtain, any sketch, photograph, photographic negative, blueprint, plan, map, model, instrument, appliance, document, writing, or note of anything connected with the national defense; or
(c) Whoever, for the purpose aforesaid, receives or obtains or agrees or attempts to receive or obtain from any person, or from any source whatever, any document, writing, code book, signal book, sketch, photograph, photographic negative, blueprint, plan, map, model, instrument, appliance, or note, of anything connected with the national defense, knowing or having reason to believe, at the time he receives or obtains, or agrees or attempts to receive or obtain it, that it has been or will be obtained, taken, made, or disposed of by any person contrary to the provisions of this chapter; or
(d) Whoever, lawfully having possession of, access to, control over, or being entrusted with any document, writing, code book, signal book, sketch, photograph, photographic negative, blueprint, plan, map, model, instrument, appliance, or note relating to the national defense, or information relating to the national defense which information the possessor has reason to believe could be used to the injury of the United States or to the advantage of any foreign nation, willfully communicates, delivers, transmits or causes to be communicated, delivered, or transmitted or attempts to communicate, deliver, transmit or cause to be communicated, delivered or transmitted the same to any person not entitled to receive it, or willfully retains the same and fails to deliver it on demand to the officer or employee of the United States entitled to receive it; or
(e) Whoever having unauthorized possession of, access to, or control over any document, writing, code book, signal book, sketch, photograph, photographic negative, blueprint, plan, map, model, instrument, appliance, or note relating to the national defense, or information relating to the national defense which information the possessor has reason to believe could be used to the injury of the United States or to the advantage of any foreign nation, willfully communicates, delivers, transmits or causes to be communicated, delivered, or transmitted, or attempts to communicate, deliver, transmit or cause to be communicated, delivered, or transmitted the same to any person not entitled to receive it, or willfully retains the same and fails to deliver it to the officer or employee of the United States entitled to receive it; or
(f) Whoever, being entrusted with or having lawful possession or control of any document, writing, code book, signal book, sketch, photograph, photographic negative, blueprint, plan, map, model, instrument, appliance, note, or information, relating to the national defense, (1) through gross negligence permits the same to be removed from its proper place of custody or delivered to anyone in violation of his trust, or to be lost, stolen, abstracted, or destroyed, or (2) having knowledge that the same has been illegally removed from its proper place of custody or delivered to anyone in violation of its trust, or lost, or stolen, abstracted, or destroyed, and fails to make prompt report of such loss, theft, abstraction, or destruction to his superior officer—
Shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than ten years, or both.
(g) If two or more persons conspire to violate any of the foregoing provisions of this section, and one or more of such persons do any act to effect the object of the conspiracy, each of the parties to such conspiracy shall be subject to the punishment provided for the offense which is the object of such conspiracy.
(h)
(1) Any person convicted of a violation of this section shall forfeit to the United States, irrespective of any provision of State law, any property constituting, or derived from, any proceeds the person obtained, directly or indirectly, from any foreign government, or any faction or party or military or naval force within a foreign country, whether recognized or unrecognized by the United States, as the result of such violation. For the purposes of this subsection, the term “State” includes a State of the United States, the District of Columbia, and any commonwealth, territory, or possession of the United States.
(2) The court, in imposing sentence on a defendant for a conviction of a violation of this section, shall order that the defendant forfeit to the United States all property described in paragraph (1) of this subsection.
(3) The provisions of subsections (b), (c), and (e) through (p) of section 413 of the Comprehensive Drug Abuse Prevention and Control Act of 1970 (21 U.S.C. 853(b), (c), and (e)–(p)) shall apply to—
(A) property subject to forfeiture under this subsection;
(B) any seizure or disposition of such property; and
(C) any administrative or judicial proceeding in relation to such property,
if not inconsistent with this subsection.
(4) Notwithstanding section 524(c) of title 28, there shall be deposited in the Crime Victims Fund in the Treasury all amounts from the forfeiture of property under this subsection remaining after the payment of expenses for forfeiture and sale authorized by law.

 

11/10/2016 2:19 pm  #20


Re: Donald Trump Wins The American Election

The above, does not show conclusive criminal intent.It is good that intent has to be proven for a charge to be made. No intent was proven, thus no charges. The rest is just implication and speculation. Once again, the mail was classified by different agency's after they were transmitted. There is no documented prof that she knowingly sent marked classified mail. Our system and the FBI is good enough and smart enough not to charge and convict someone on speculations and implications alone. The plaintif has the burden of prof. I know intent is hard to prove. Until it is proven, all you got is speculation and implications. I can not judge and convict someone on that alone.

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