Hanblecheya

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11/02/2015 12:16 pm  #1


Store bought dream catchers.

Are they an mass produced exploitation of Native American Spirituality? Some are mass produced in China and India. Are these mass produced dream catchers worthless trinkets?

 

7/03/2016 6:34 pm  #2


Re: Store bought dream catchers.

I think they are an exploitation because if you really want one then you should make it yourself. Hence, yes they are worthless trinkets in POV. That's why I've never bought one that was from China/India.

With that being said, I can understand why the Native peoples sell them. They have to eat too. In that case, if I know that it was hand made I wouldn't be against buying it; except for the dream catcher because I think that it should be personally made. When I went to the Grand Canyon though I bought some beautiful stone necklaces because I think that is something different entirely.

I could be wrong on some things here though... Ignorance is not bliss. It never was in my opinion.

 

7/04/2016 3:24 pm  #3


Re: Store bought dream catchers.

Some are worthless trinkets they have no meaning to them,its better to make your own if you can,i wouldnt buy them from anywhere where they were made in china taiwan etc,they are not genuine and just made to generate money.

Namaste


The spoken word always comes back as whispers in the wind.
 

7/05/2016 10:50 am  #4


Re: Store bought dream catchers.

I  once sold dream catchers here at the Grand Canyon, at Desert View Trading post and at the Indian Watch Tower. They were Native Made. I also sold refrigerator magnets LOL.

     Thread Starter
 

7/29/2016 2:40 am  #5


Re: Store bought dream catchers.

I hate fridge magnets Lol..
I have two Dream Catchers the largest was gifted to me by my room mate on a NAI history and Culture course many years ago.  She made it herself interestingly, her husband spoke fluent Lakota when in 'Trance'.He used to come and teach us and perform ceremonies too. Most of our teachers were NAI.
I keep this one in my sleeping space.. The other was gifted to me 2 years ago. I did attend a wotkshop to make one, but I couldn't see well enough to complete it  

A year later after my help froma Norther Cheyeme Medicine man, I was able to attend a drummaking workshopand now have a superb 20''' diameter drum with the most amazing tone.. Yes it was blessed too...

 

Last edited by Star Wolf Medicine Woman (7/29/2016 2:43 am)


There is a good way,  a bad way, and a better way.  For my path, I choose the better way..
Nicholas Black Elk
 
 

8/16/2016 5:12 pm  #6


Re: Store bought dream catchers.

Dream Catchers are now common aspects of American Culture at this point in time.  One has to be careful about the cultural appropriation band wagon.  They are appreciated as a piece of art and the traditional purpose of the item remains as such.  I mean I was taught how to make a dream catcher by my German Grandmother when I was 8.  It was something that was part of my Grandfathers family traditions from the Appalachian mountains.  At that point they were part of my culture.  

My grandmother also made on for each of the grandkids.  They were not completely traditionally made, she uses metal rings wrapped in leather, but the meaning was the same.  Since dreamcatchers themselves are not really religious symbols, but a kinda of protection charm.  They are also rather universally made at this going.  It's an adaptation from a culture and a piece of art.  I make my own and give them to new mothers.  

At this point they are an aspect of American Culture. While they have a deeper meaning in some native cultures, the use is pretty much the same.  They are often made more permanent and not designed to break down as a child reaches adulthood for instance.  Symbols and art have different meanings to many cultures.  I do not get mad when people with no real connection to Scottish clans wear bad kilts of the wrong tartan colors. just like I am glad that Clan McGregor changed up the ugly traditional tartan for sporting events to something nicer looking lol.   

 

8/17/2016 4:18 am  #7


Re: Store bought dream catchers.

I had to laugh re the Bad Tartans, there are a lot of them worn by football fans, they even daub themselves with Wode...  
Many years back I went with a friend to Scotland and whilst we were there we researched the people in our family with Scots connectioms..   My brother married aMc Donald... but in later years he divorced her LOl If you have any Scots connection you will know of the fued going backk generations..  We bought  the correct Tartan ties for people as there are frequently different designs for Ceremonial/ Hunting etc..  In tourist shops allover the world there will always be Trash.. Faked products .. The lesson is, look into it for the right reasons and make sure you support the genuine artisans.
 

Last edited by Star Wolf Medicine Woman (8/17/2016 4:25 am)


There is a good way,  a bad way, and a better way.  For my path, I choose the better way..
Nicholas Black Elk
 
 

8/17/2016 6:29 am  #8


Re: Store bought dream catchers.

So much is true I remember when the Bay city rollers were big everyone went out and bought tartan and you could tell it wasn't genuine. but the hype was in and people were just making money


The spoken word always comes back as whispers in the wind.
 

8/17/2016 6:49 am  #9


Re: Store bought dream catchers.

Sept Gregory of Clan McGregor.  Yeah, feuds and losing go with the family history.  Since I am connected to the Clan group from my mother's side and all.  Nothing special in regards to status, just a peon lol.  Your family kills a few important people and everyone gets all excited and mean lol.  Generally, you do not admit to being a McGregor unless you are. ‘S Rioghal Mo Dhream (My race is royal) 
http://scotclans.scotclans.dyndns.tv/system/images/5480/product_detail/KD-G05.jpg?1415966641
http://scotclans.scotclans.dyndns.tv/system/images/5210/product_detail/KD-G04.jpg?1415965627
this is an ugly tartan, but it's mine haha.  Also, it is argued that there is no hunting Tartan in this clan as the McGregors are too busy getting things done to be bothered to have to change for something. This was has been posted in official channels.  I am not sure if the Kilt society has actually made this official.  I get all sorts of information from the St Andrews Society and the Clan group at the KC Highland games every year lol.  I will never go as far as owning and entire Prince Charles grand kilt set up.  I barely own standard US men's dress clothing lol.

So while I may secretly cringe, kilt wearing among Americans is a thing, there are a lot of Scotts in the ancestry of the country.  But I do not let it get to me personally.  It is just part of the mishmash of American culture that is all over the place.  

On the cultural appropriation bandwagon I have been informed that because I am white that I do not count as an oppressed individual as my ancestors were part of imperialism, ironically from a Japanese-American.  Which, I laughed a long long time over that argument haha.  It should be noted that I am not a SWJ and take a much more balanced less authoritarian viewpoint on cultural exchanges and the give and take aspects of such things.  As awesome things like Asia fusion cooking, Anime and baby metal have been born from such things and I am okay with that.  It goes to far and is more based on what one feels then reality and the existence of long-term interactions with cultures and personally the base theory in which the concept was written about has some holes in it that are pretty big.  Sociology gets like that a lot, especially the super liberal doctoral thesis that tend to get grabbed on to as things 20+ years after they are written.  Or as it turns out super conservative ones too, it seems moderate doctoral thesis do no really grab the attention of the masses, or at least do not become part of Soc 101 haha.  Amateur cultural scholar here, nothing is simple, I like money too much to get a liberal arts degree though haha.  I get bitter when 18-year-olds are quoting theories and leading movements grounded in one simple mindset that is ill researched and even more irritated when faculty submits to such ideas.  Debate is part of intellectualism and what leads to new ideas that create the needed changes in understanding and perspective that create growth.  These authoritarian driven movements do not allow for debate or discussion its obey or you are breaking the safe place were debate is not allowed just acceptance and that becomes religion.  

On the NA/FN perspective I can understand the butchering of their traditions from new agers that they invited in on good faith in the 60's leaving a sting, especially when it has created a pile of misinformation a mile deep that keeps getting weirder as people attempt to expand 5th hand information with nothing added of benefit.  

 

  
 

 

8/17/2016 9:10 am  #10


Re: Store bought dream catchers.

Well I haven't got tartan in my family no connection to Scotland my grandfather originally came from Ireland so I was told he was one of 23 kids. I live in wales but my family hails from Patigonia in the 1800s then into Arizona and Canada so I'm a mixed bag,


The spoken word always comes back as whispers in the wind.
 

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